What Is Project Success?
ross_valusoft says : Various researchers have suggested alternative metrics to those of the iron triangle for determining project success; cost, time and quality do not go far enough in measuring success. Success is a subjective concept and unless defined by all stakeholders of a project before any undertaking, its definition will be subject to dispute when attempting to assess project results.
Do you agree?
Can success be guaranteed?
newbie says :
ross_valusoft>Various researchers have suggested alternative metrics to those of the iron triangle for determining project success; cost, time and quality do not go far enough in measuring success. Success is a subjective concept and unless defined by all stakeholders of a project before any undertaking, its definition will be subject to dispute when attempting to assess project results.
Do you agree?
Can success be guaranteed?
Hi Ross,
What is the iron triangle? Sorry if this is a simple question for you guys.
newbie
ross_valusoft says :
newbie>Hi Ross,
What is the iron triangle? Sorry if this is a simple question for you guys.
newbie
Sorry for making assumptions. The iron triangle is a term to describe the three traditional constraints on a project manager. They are cost, time and quality. They can be like handcuffs....
The usual dilemma for a project manager is that s/he has to decide which of these 3 s/he might have to sacrifice in order to achieve the other two constraints...eg, sacrifice quality of the project's product in order to keep the costs under control and finish on time. So you can play the "pick any two" game and lose the third....
Sorry if my explanation was pitched a little low..
Bernard says :
ross_valusoft>... Success is a subjective concept and unless defined by all stakeholders of a project before any undertaking, its definition will be subject to dispute when attempting to assess project results.
Do you agree?[/quote>
Yes.
ross_valusoft>Can success be guaranteed?
No, but it can be managed. ;)Alf says : Comment on the Iron triangle:
-Better
-Faster
-Cheaper
Pick two: Three is impossible :)bas says : All in all success is in the eye of the beholder, so its about stakeholder satisfaction. However, that is a very vague thing to measure. I would hate to see a contract based upon a user satisfaction survey :)
Ross, just curious, what other metrics did you had in mind when saying "various researchers"?
Cheers
Bassalcorp says : Recently I have experienced more and more interaction with my clients where they themselves decide wich should be sacrificed/limped to value the others.
Most of the times it works out great, but we all know that not all clients have a clear view of their own projects.ross_valusoft says :
salcorp>Recently I have experienced more and more interaction with my clients where they themselves decide wich should be sacrificed/limped to value the others.
Most of the times it works out great, but we all know that not all clients have a clear view of their own projects.
That is why I spend time developing the client brief and a relationship with them..."a problem shared is a problem halved".ross_valusoft says :
bas>All in all success is in the eye of the beholder, so its about stakeholder satisfaction. However, that is a very vague thing to measure. I would hate to see a contract based upon a user satisfaction survey :)
Bas, now you are getting close to a topic close to my heart. My Masters Thesis studied the success of 30+ projects in a Government department. It was amazing how many of the 200+ users were dissatisfied with the "product" after the project was completed. If the project was not done for the use of the user, who was it done for? The user is almost always the most important stakeholder! The project plan must address the user's criteria for a successful product...IMHO.
bas>Ross, just curious, what other metrics did you had in mind when saying "various researchers"?
Cheers
Bas
OK, let me answer obliquely with a different scenario/question. Consider a company that decides to go into the hospitality business by building a new hotel to capture the tourism boom. They engage a designer and builder and select a great site. The hotel gets built on time, within budget and to the agreed quality, there are no disputes and the builder is paid, suitable staff are employed, the best food and fittings are used...but the guests do not come because of external influences (eg, the rise of terrorism ). Was the project a success? In whose eyes?
For the builder...yes! For the neighbours ... probably. For the owner...no, but you say the iron triangle was satisfied. Clearly there are other metrics that go beyond the timeframe of the project delivery. And these need to be defined by the stakeholders. Every project will have its own particular metrics.
Another project that I am aware of involved a new weather radar installation at a remote site in outback Australia. The maintenance people judged the project a failure because they still had to travel 900 miles each way to see if there was enough fuel for the backup electrical generator. Their criteria for success, a means of remote monitoring of fuel levels, was ignored despite there being a communications link to the radar to deliver other data.salcorp says :
ross_valusoft>That is why I spend time developing the client brief and a relationship with them..."a problem shared is a problem halved".
Always a learner... 27 years of age and 4 of PM is not what I call the best of experience but I´m getting there.
:DUnregistered says :
salcorp>Always a learner... 27 years of age and 4 of PM is not what I call the best of experience but I´m getting there.
:D
Hi,
If you are interested, I could send you a small client brief from a project completed a few years ago. It is not perfect, but it might give you some ideas that you could improve upon. It is the same one that I sent to "newbie" last week.
Regards,ross_valusoft says :
Unregistered>Hi,
If you are interested, I could send you a small client brief from a project completed a few years ago. It is not perfect, but it might give you some ideas that you could improve upon. It is the same one that I sent to "newbie" last week.
Regards,
ooops, I forgot to log in...this message is from me.
Regards,
Rosssalcorp says : that would be nice.
you can never have too many examples.
you can send it to my email salcorp(AT)yahoo.com
thanks a lot.
:)ross_valusoft says :
salcorp>Always a learner... 27 years of age and 4 of PM is not what I call the best of experience but I´m getting there.
:D
Hmmm, 55 years young and too many years as project manager to count, but always willing to learn more, especially from the fresh minds. bas says : So, basically, if you want to have a project "success" in the traditional (now) way, you make the financial guy happy, tell them some fancy (consultant!) mumbo jumbo that really sounds good (so the higher management thinks they have something advanced and cool), and your ok... :)
Still wondering how you could address the satisfaction of other parties involved.
I guess always numbers should be used, always the money that talks...
"Must be able to handle so many orders in an hour"
Your australian radar station might have this maintenance thingy as they perhaps would have constructed some kind of business case for it. As long as it cannot be measured in money earned or saved it stays under the radar (no pun intended).ross_valusoft says :
bas>So, basically, if you want to have a project "success" in the traditional (now) way, you make the financial guy happy, tell them some fancy (consultant!) mumbo jumbo that really sounds good (so the higher management thinks they have something advanced and cool), and your ok... :)
Arrr, I didn't say that. I said that the success criteria should be defined by the stakeholders before the project starts. Yes, the bean counters (the financial guys) will measure that in terms of money...but maybe not within the time frame of the project delivery. The time after the project delivery is when the profit is usually made, eg with a hotel. For a concert, yes it is on the night, and maybe the week after, when the invoices are paid and the disputes are settled.
bas>
Still wondering how you could address the satisfaction of other parties involved. I guess always numbers should be used, always the money that talks...
"Must be able to handle so many orders in an hour"
Money is not the best "measuring stick" always. How about a political election campaign? Success would be to get elected. For a marathon race, many people would consider a finish to be a success. For an aid group, it might be to prevent any deaths from starvation. Money is involved in many projects, but not all.
bas>
Your australian radar station might have this maintenance thingy as they perhaps would have constructed some kind of business case for it. As long as it cannot be measured in money earned or saved it stays under the radar (no pun intended).
Interesting. The stakeholders (including the maintenance people) were asked to define their success criteria (although it was probably "What do you want?") but in that element it was ignored. Why? Maybe too many things on the wishlist for the PM to remember. But certainly, they now know, there was financial and manpower availability reasons to include that feature.newbie says :
Unregistered>Hi,
If you are interested, I could send you a small client brief from a project completed a few years ago. It is not perfect, but it might give you some ideas that you could improve upon. It is the same one that I sent to "newbie" last week.
Regards,
Sorry Ross. I forgot to say thanks.
newbieross_valusoft says :
newbie>Sorry Ross. I forgot to say thanks.
newbie
No problem. It is only a sample..not a new Bible.salcorp says : Who knows... in a couple of years we can go ... "You see that man in the cover of Forbes, son? That man sent daddy an email when he wasn´t famous!!!"
:)ross_valusoft says :
salcorp>Who knows... in a couple of years we can go ... "You see that man in the cover of Forbes, son? That man sent daddy an email when he wasn´t famous!!!"
:)
:D Dream on!
